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Vape Central => Freedom Of Speech => Topic started by: emtronea on January 16, 2013, 02:04:16 PM

Title: housing benefit
Post by: emtronea on January 16, 2013, 02:04:16 PM
http://www.chevinha.co.uk/5-whats-new/0-whats-new/178-what-you-need-to-know-about-changes-to-housing-benefit.html (http://www.chevinha.co.uk/5-whats-new/0-whats-new/178-what-you-need-to-know-about-changes-to-housing-benefit.html)

What happens if you have a ‘spare' bedroom?

If you have one ‘spare' bedroom your housing benefit will be cut by 14% of the rent you pay every week. If you have two or more spare bedrooms, you will lose 25%.

If your benefit is cut you will have to pay your landlord the difference between your housing benefit and your rent.

Mr and Mrs Smith live in a two-bedroom flat costing £70 per week in rent. At the moment housing benefit covers the full cost of their rent. Under the new rules they will have one spare bedroom. Their housing benefit will be reduced by 14% of their rent (14% of £70 = £9.80). Their housing benefit will be reduced by £9.80 to £60.20 per week. They will have to pay £9.80 per week towards their rent.

Mr and Mrs Bell live with their two teenage boys, aged 13 and 15, in a three bedroom house. Their rent is £100 per week and they receive £10 per week in housing benefit. Under the new rules their children will be expected to share a bedroom and so they will be treated as having one spare.  Their housing benefit will be reduced by 14% of £100 (£14), and so they will lose all their housing benefit.

this affects workers as well. as if u ava job and ya lose ya job and u rent a 3 bedroom house with 2 kids u will be up the flu for housing benefit  :o

1 question how do they lose all ther housing benefit??

before the changes

mr and mrs polictian, they mortgage a mansion, they rent out there mansion at full housing benefit cap per person, thousands of pounds a week. ripping off the tax payer and live a life of luxery legaly

which is the reason why housing benefit was changed  ???

a tip for ppl

mr and mrs crazy have 2 kids, n live in  a 3 bedroom house. they both lost ther jobs due to council cuts, they now get housing benefit to pay £100 a week rent. but because of the spare room, will now have to pay £14 out of ther dole money to which is spent on buss travel to go look for new jobs  ???

however mr and mrs crazy no ther landlord very well and ask him to put up the rent %14, the landlord agree,s, the landlord gets his £100 and the goverment gets the finger  :D

mr and mrs crazy could ask ther landlord to put there rent up to £500, minus the £100 minus the %14 and share the profits between them selfs, but mr and mrs crazy arnt polictians ther crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy :))
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 04:32:02 PM
People living in oversized properties and being paid my money to be there (as such) ?   thats another angle, move down then, and let people who need the size for there families have it.

Job done, Lee
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 04:34:36 PM
People living in oversized properties and being paid my money to be there (as such) ?   thats another angle, move down then, and let people who need the size for there families have it.

Job done, Lee

you and your tax avoidance schemes aye Lee ... ::)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
never :)   but hey, I mean, why should someone be paid to live in an oversized property for there needs ?  Its about time they saw it all if you ask me.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 04:37:58 PM
when I cant even get a poxy flat as a single man, thats the joke of it all.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 04:40:36 PM
never :)   but hey, I mean, why should someone be paid to live in an oversized property for there needs ?  Its about time they saw it all if you ask me.

and why should one ebenezer be picked up by ambulance and gifted with hospital treatment when he goes all out to avoid every contribution possible and cant even look where he's going ??

Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 04:41:05 PM
when I cant even get a poxy flat as a single man, thats the joke of it all.

shack up with your boyfriend ... ;) ... lol
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 04:41:38 PM
That would be true if the driver was on the bike :)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 04:43:14 PM
That would be true if the driver was on the bike :)

still, im not having a go at the incident, but more the unbalanced morals that leads misers to moan ... ;)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 04:47:40 PM
not really, just saying live in ya means, in a place that fits them too, i havent got any probs with "social" living for any reason, just be placed in a suitable property.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 04:50:00 PM
not really, just saying live in ya means, in a place that fits them too, i havent got any probs with "social" living for any reason, just be placed in a suitable property.

then READ what was written ... and perhaps even consider how you roll prior to judging those who might contribute more to society than mr mean might shout about ...
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 04:51:43 PM
whats got your goat !  LOL
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 04:52:46 PM
either way, you pay the extra for spare rooms or move down, whats wrong with that ?
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 04:55:07 PM
either way, you pay the extra for spare rooms or move down, whats wrong with that ?

then exactly as i said, move in with your boyfriend ?? whats wrong with that ?
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 04:58:42 PM
nothing if i was remotely interested in having one LOL
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 04:59:12 PM
whats got your goat !  LOL

nothing really, but having seen so much of the scrooge mentality, i cant seem to sympathize when the same bloke thinks he should condemn others being offset by the system he claims to consistently beat.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 05:02:39 PM
your not living in an oversized house on the social then are you ?
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 05:04:24 PM
i'm sorry, can you tell me, are you aiming this at me or EMT, cos im lost, what do you mean by all this "dodging"
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 05:04:33 PM
your not living in an oversized house on the social then are you ?

you're absolutely correct, im not ... ;)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: emtronea on January 16, 2013, 05:17:19 PM
People living in oversized properties and being paid my money to be there (as such) ?   thats another angle, move down then, and let people who need the size for there families have it.

Job done, Lee

so after they lost ther jobs, u wana kick the famly out, screw up the kids school arangments, put the famly on the street, till they find somewer to live or put them in a hostel with drugs n crap, sell all ther possesions, as storage is £30 or a higher a week. put emotional distress on the entire famly just because they have a box room they put the spare bedding in for the winter.

do u work for the council lee  ???
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 05:24:06 PM
no, thats what youve said or assumed i meant, no one should be on the streets no, or anything else, but i see no problem in downscaling if you dont need it, when a family could, either that or pay for it.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 05:27:33 PM
no, thats what youve said or assumed i meant, no one should be on the streets no, or anything else, but i see no problem in downscaling if you dont need it, when a family could, either that or pay for it.

i sense a softening in tone ... ;)

you could vacate your premises and move into an all male hostel ...
same difference, so will you be putting your self forward for the same or equivalent move you advocate ?? or perhaps it is yet to dawn upon you that you could just as easily downsize too ??
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 05:31:44 PM
I would be happy to move into a hostel with the correct criteria, I dont have that, I would move down if I was in that position yes, to aid others rather than an "i'm in this house / flat" and "why should I pay" attitude.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 05:35:23 PM
I would be happy to move into a hostel with the correct criteria, I dont have that, I would move down if I was in that position yes, to aid others rather than an "i'm in this house / flat" and "why should I pay" attitude.

thats precisely the attitude mind ... see my earliest post and the yellow highlighted text ... incorporate the fact where you throughout the forum celebrate your evasive means, and then subtract your own burden toward society.
now see the irony of the none contributors judgement toward others ... ::)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 05:42:38 PM
I think over 500 a month in contributions, for instance for the last 5 years covers me, the fact remains, they are looking for ways to share property round, no one would give it up, so you pay for it if you dont need it, or move down, not homeless, just within your needs, makes sense to me.

And, saving a few hundred quid a year on e-cig stuff ?   is that what you mean !  LOL, I have far overpaid what I have used in health terms, far from a "burden", are you serious ?  LOL.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 05:53:11 PM
I think over 500 a month in contributions, for instance for the last 5 years covers me, the fact remains, they are looking for ways to share property round, no one would give it up, so you pay for it if you dont need it, or move down, not homeless, just within your needs, makes sense to me.

And, saving a few hundred quid a year on e-cig stuff ?   is that what you mean !  LOL, I have far overpaid what I have used in health terms, far from a "burden", are you serious ?  LOL.

so by your slight contribution less your personal burden on society, you are ultimately very costly overall ... i note the unusual lack of celebration in your now subdued reflection toward your personal savings too.

i have every sympathy with the share property argument, i merely expect those shouting loudest should perhaps consider their own contribution to that ideal ...
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 05:56:45 PM
I sense a corner too ..... so what ive saved well, and paid my way, thats not the discussion, housing need is the topic, and keep bouncing personal realities off people and deviating from topic says enough.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 06:02:56 PM
I sense a corner too ..... so what ive saved well, and paid my way, thats not the discussion, housing need is the topic, and keep bouncing personal realities off people and deviating from topic says enough.

not sure how that comes to pass ... you claimed YOUR money was included in your decision to enter this thread with judgmentalism ... i see your practices as more the burden than contributor.
i would expect to allow two children their separate room in their family home, you claimed that somehow costs you money ... i say they'll be subsidizing your living one day ...
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 06:07:47 PM
the fact remains, if the 2 kids need 2 rooms and the parents 1, they have that, if they live an a 4 bed place, they pay for it.  Its about house size, not what they'll pay in the future, they'll pay it either way.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 06:16:29 PM
the fact remains, if the 2 kids need 2 rooms and the parents 1, they have that, if they live an a 4 bed place, they pay for it.  Its about house size, not what they'll pay in the future, they'll pay it either way.

you're missing the point though ... perhaps you prejudice is obscuring your view ... i'll enter a few simple points:

1) the children are to be forced to share a room unlike before ...
2) the additional and now spare room shall then be charged ...
3) this is under the illusion that it will free up housing ...
4) this is in reality not about to profit you but might satisfy your prejudice ...
5) many of the effected are likely to far outperform your contribution to your state ...
6) they might rarely wish to interfere with your standard of living ...
7) indeed they will be required again later, to contribute to maintaining it ...

you do have the situation in hand though, if you have the courage of your conviction ...
you can infact pop yourself in shared accomodation or bedsit, and rent out your current home for a low rent that will benefit those you preside over judging ... 
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 06:23:29 PM
assuming of course, that after the alleged £500/month contributions, means your take home is plenty enough that you'd own your own home ... or perhaps you're renting a property in which you already occupy the space you said needed cleared ... :-\
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 06:41:13 PM
If they can share a room legally and healthily (age and sex) so be it.  You clearly know little about me, so "judging" or presuming on your part really doesnt add weight to it all.

The example added in the thread opener link is for boys aged 13-15.   The only way it wont "free up housing" as you say, is you pay for it, simple.  I'm not in that position, but i'd have to re-think my housing situation or incomes spare if I was.   I know enough people in this possible situation though, and those too, will have to evaluate.   Changing the goalposts ?  it happens in all parts of it, ive seen it enough.

Are you expecting the government to be happy that someone lives in a 5 bed place with 1 or 2 kids then ?   that im sure is what arguement the government have acted on now, and fair enough when another larger family may need that house.

Im not judging anyone again like you keep assuming, the government have set task for you to live in a house / flat which is in your means in short, or to the people your envolved with, thats fair to me.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 06:44:57 PM
If they can share a room legally and healthily (age and sex) so be it.  You clearly know little about me, so "judging" or presuming on your part really doesnt add weight to it all.

The example added in the thread opener link is for boys aged 13-15.   The only way it wont "free up housing" as you say, is you pay for it, simple.  I'm not in that position, but i'd have to re-think my housing situation or incomes spare if I was.   I know enough people in this possible situation though, and those too, will have to evaluate.   Changing the goalposts ?  it happens in all parts of it, ive seen it enough.

Are you expecting the government to be happy that someone lives in a 5 bed place with 1 or 2 kids then ?   that im sure is what arguement the government have acted on now, and fair enough when another larger family may need that house.

Im not judging anyone again like you keep assuming, the government have set task for you to live in a house / flat which is in your means in short, or to the people your envolved with, thats fair to me.

read your posts ... you're ignorant, "Job done, Lee" ::)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: RebelPants on January 16, 2013, 06:49:31 PM
If a government wishes to save TAX money on the TOTAL AMOUNT DEMANDED BY PRIVATE LANDLORDS!!
WHY make the poor tenants move out with their families and move to a smaller property away from family, friends and possible WORK opportunities?
I know this taxpayer did not vote for this policy!
FORCE the landlords to take less rent and build more houses, at the same time bringing down the price of houses so ordinary families can afford a home!
This will not only stimulate the construction industry. Bring down the Price of rents and housing benefits and burst any FALSE housing BUBLLE That helped Spark the recession in the first place.
DO NOT Blame the Poor for being Poor or The Jobless for unemployment! OR those without their own home for the price set by others! 
Keep the family where it is, stimulate the economy by building new HOMES.
And give the lad or LADETTE on unemployment a job for a LIVING WAGE so he/she does not have to claim any benefit.
Goodluck,
Reb  8)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 06:57:03 PM
i know i didn't vote for it either ...

in fact, statements such as this,

Quote
the government have set task for you to live in a house / flat which is in your means in short, or to the people your envolved with, thats fair to me.

are made ever more ironic where the same poster routinely cries foul of the suddenly now "fair" government, wherever they have influence over him ...
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 07:00:13 PM
i'm only saying what your government is thinking and acting on, and what I believe as fair to the whole, as in people with larger families maybe needing homes too, or are you now saying that spare rooms to yourself doesnt warrant another family using them ?  (in short)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 07:05:53 PM
i'm only saying what your government is thinking and acting on, and what I believe as fair to the whole, as in people with larger families maybe needing homes too, or are you now saying that spare rooms to yourself doesnt warrant another family using them ?  (in short)

i hear what you're saying ... i just don't think you know what you're saying ...
you have no dependents and big enough wage to pay £500/month allegedly ...

you then go on to regularly miser and moan at paying the same VAT those you condemn are required to pay ...
listen to your holier than them self and reflect ...

which of the two are dipping deapest into pockets ? the single well paid moaner who cries foul at paying their way like everyone else, or the kid who wants their own room ?
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 07:13:24 PM
... they have choice whether they want their own now or not, they could just make it a rule and give no offer ?    VAT and everything else doesnt come into it AGAIN, you have the choice, the worlds getting smaller, and yes its not "allegedly" or am I boasting, a mere answer to your constant presumptions.

And what are you on about "condemning" ?   im on about a fair system that could of been worse, that reflects a fairness to EVERY family, not me as i am now, not my life, everyones.   Stick to topic jesus.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 07:20:17 PM
And what are you on about "condemning" ?   im on about a fair system that could of been worse, that reflects a fairness to EVERY family, not me as i am now, not my life, everyones.   Stick to topic jesus.

your version of fair is only fair to you ... if your everything is to be fair, then hand in your notice to that well paid sat about job and let someone with morals and a family to feed have access to it ??

fair to me is more about allowing those in a worse position, their right to peace quiet and stability, not greedy holier than thou prejudice and inflict of ignorance ... ::)

and edit just to say, please, dont call me jesus ... :P
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 07:27:52 PM
Anyone with a family and mouths to feed can do my job, I've trained for it and got it, there's shedloads of my work around, with no problems getting it after training, even that is simple enough to obtain freely or otherwise if you can drive a car, again, not a valid arguement.   IT AGAIN is not about me, or the job I do.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 07:31:48 PM
Anyone with a family and mouths to feed can do my job, I've trained for it and got it, there's shedloads of my work around, with no problems getting it after training, even that is simple enough to obtain freely or otherwise if you can drive a car, again, not a valid arguement.   IT AGAIN is not about me, or the job I do.

exactly ... its not about YOU, so perhaps you could begin to realise why i object to your endorsement of something that brings misery to those who unlike yourself, rarely thrive on being misers ...
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: RebelPants on January 16, 2013, 07:41:31 PM
Lee, You are MISSING THE POINT MATE.
This Government(a government NO ONE VOTED FOR IN ITS CURRENT FORMATION and therefore has no REAL MANDATE) is creating a form of ethnic/wealth cleansing.
Forcing the Poor to either LIVE ON LESS even as inflation and Costs Rise.
Or to Move out of a home that they may have lived in for years.
This is not a choice. In any Real sense offered by anyone other than a fascist.
Why not ask the Queen to move out, or the MPs to LIVE With THEIR PARENTS As a second home?
OR ask those that have MORE(the RICH ARE GETTING RICHER) to pay for a greater proportion of the requirements of those in NEED.
As opposed to giving them a TAX DECREASE while cutting the benefits of ther poor and freezing or cutting the wages of those in work.
Why not build more houses while limiting the PRIVATE LANDLORD rent demands.
Not all of the PSEUDO solutions offered by a government voted for by NO ONE is the only or even Moral possible conclusion.
In fact, this non-elected government is using the recession as an excuse to increase the profits of a few and destroying the Heart and soul of our country!
Think on,
Goodluck,
Reb  :-X
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: bobbins53 on January 16, 2013, 07:48:06 PM
There are people who are going to really get shafted by this, while it does make a sort of sense and looks reasonable at first glance when you think about the logistics it looks like nothing more than a stealth cut in benefits for those least able to afford to do something about it,  it is a expensive business moving with bonds, rent upfront, plus removal cost etc, for people on benefits a lot will be stuck living in their current place because they can't afford the outlay to move to somewhere smaller.

This is going to affect people who live alone quite badly if the rented housing market nationally is anything like it is round here,  my nephew who is still quite young and not earning that much has been looking out for a small one bedroom place for a few months now, he has been informed by local agents that there little call for them around here, guess that will change quite quickly! ...but it won't help those already trapped, this includes old people and the disabled, not just the work shy! 
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 07:51:51 PM
thing is though Reb, there's them that do and those that don't understand ... its good old fashioned ignorance perhaps with sprinkle of snobbery ...

see, the thing is, the same now supposed "fair" government might suggest any single bloke with a bicycle need only require a nominal wage per week, this would be very fair as they could then use the increased tax they extort to extend to those more family orientated ...

now i do-not for a moment believe that a fair solution, but in answer to the critical conclusion of one, mine is somewhere about equal to the contrary ...
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Derek on January 16, 2013, 08:08:46 PM
It makes me feel quite sick to my stomach that a huge quantity of people many of whom will have little else in life other than the homes they have rented for years being effectively denied them.

One of the first acts of this government was a full 5% no questions asked tax reduction for those in the highest tax bracket. Then they tried to sell off PUBLIC land, PUBLIC libraries in he full knowledge the only people capable of buying them would be those already well enough off. There are im sure countless other examples of the savage attacks on PUBLIC services all by a group of people whose job it is to serve the PUBLIC.

Shame on you
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 10:00:58 PM
rebel, your missing the whole point, since when does it matter what you or anyone says or votes toward matter to the government or who's in it, I aint missed nothing, just see the bigger picture, and needs of the housing and people.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 10:13:02 PM
I aint missed nothing, just see the bigger picture, and needs of the housing and people.

the bigger picture ?? wouldn't the bigger picture include future generations ?? does the UK truly need a housing shortage when considered in real terms ?? would it be plausible to stop worrying about what the government can do to others and instead appreciate what they do for you ?? as this is about housing as is currently, would there be any true gain from disrupting things ??

thing about housing needs will of course differ from person to person, but when it comes down to it, its very easy to be critical and naive when you've only yourself to think about ...
those with investment in future generations might often disagree with the tight-arse who's experience is limited to one of mere ignorance and selfishness ...
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: RebelPants on January 16, 2013, 10:25:05 PM
No Mate!
You argue move the poor out of homes!
Which agrees with this non-elected government.
I say, build more houses and stop cutting the wages and benefits of the poor.
What will happen if this policy comes in is this....
Communities and families will be destroyed, as they are moved out to places that they can afford with less money.
The Private Landlords will not only maintain but increase their rents.
The size of available properties availble will decrease, so that any ordinary person will be paying more for less.
As these same landlords will cram in more families under NEW contracts opened up with this policy.
If it does not matter what you or I think or say why do you bother posting or voting at all?
At least try to think in more than one dimension, rather than trying to mimic a child wanting an ice cream without the money.
I would Propose, LIMITING PRIVATE LANDLORD RENTS IMMEDIATELY.
And building MASS housing in the PUBLIC sector.
Boosting the construction industry, creating more jobs.
Solving in one blow, the unemployment crisis and the housing shortage and the ARTIFICALLY high price of housing and rents.
Instead of giving OUR money to the bankers that helped create the economic crisis, spend it on and for the people of the country.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 10:28:07 PM
just for one moment Lee, try imagine you got lucky while younger ... you got married, had children and set out to provide ... stable enough in work, you think things are hunky dory and despite government cutbacks brought about by the greed of prats, you continue against the odds to sustain the family yourself and wife have nurchured ... now you find the last microwave you're ever going to sell just went out the door as the comet sign came down ... then with an already tight budget, you're forced to explain to the kids how you need to move house and share living and recreational space despite your every effort ... or indeed keep the living space but sacrifice whatever else is left to sell, perhaps part there of your childrens own future ...

meanwhile some funny looking guy cycles past every day whom by lonesome self happens to take more money than he deserve yet still competes to sneak more while moaning how hard done to he is ...

come on, surely the bigger picture has many ways to be presented ...
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 10:47:42 PM
Future generations will grow as will there properties, not like now, bigger families will be able to get there houses, where's before they could of been underpopulated by others.

Its not ignorance, in the governments eye its why build un-neccesarily, are you gonna change it ?

It aint an easy way of living agreed, but we are in england.

Its - And "snobbery" for getting on with life and bettering myself ?   when its free to all ?   that makes me a snob then ?  what does it make you ?  PMSL, not really nice to keep insulting in defense is it ?

AGAIN, if I was in that position i'd simply be thinking either can I afford to stay, or where are we going, because if offered that scenario, I am in a bigger house than my family needs, and i'm sure it'll settle in the end to a more of a house swapping scenario.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 10:49:25 PM
LOL, so because I have no family, that makes me the baddy and the money grabber, ive told you, its free to all what I do, jesus mate, get over it.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: RebelPants on January 16, 2013, 10:56:55 PM
What is this 'FREE to all' thing you Mention that is going to Liberate us all?
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 11:00:53 PM

Its - And "snobbery" for getting on with life and bettering myself ?   when its free to all ?   that makes me a snob then ?  what does it make you ?  PMSL, not really nice to keep insulting in defense is it ?


while you feel you have position to determine the plight of others, and by such attitude, you are indeed behaving as a snob ... ignorance is even more simple to alot ... this thread is very similar to others where your views are very loudly aired on a device you never seen nor even came into contact with ...

remember, your expressed approval to deprive others, has nothing to do with getting on with life and bettering yourself ... its more akin to being a tad bitter and twisted by assuming your own position would be improved by hampering other aspects of society ...

"IF" you were even possibly able to land in such position, your views would be as proven, you'd moan like you typically do ... i know this and i'm quite sure you do too.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 11:03:02 PM
LOL, so because I have no family, that makes me the baddy and the money grabber, ive told you, its free to all what I do, jesus mate, get over it.

not necessarily no, it just means while you wade into a debate that is far beyond your limited comprehension, you might best realise that your own outward burden is more than that of those you tend to have an unhealthy opinion over ...
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 11:20:52 PM
Trucking.

Its not way beyond me either, I just take it as it is, it aint gonna change by anyone, I just dont see the problem, if your in to bigger house pay or move down, whats the problem, has anyone said you'll be moved to outer mongolia ?  no, if they rehouse near to the last, its all good, how many have asked where moving options are or talked over disruption to their kids ?

It aint no different to me renting and the owner selling up is it, I gotta move ?

your just twisting it all to suit, its not snobbery that I chose to get on, its not bitter that i havent got kids, hampering society ?   what are you on.

I and we have been in that position your on about, and worse, not that I want to explain, but "moaning" as you say wouldnt get me or us where we are today, so please, AGAIN AND AGAIN, whinge at me when you know what your on about, and stop presuming your the only one in this and i'm a snob for not !   I could of been where I was or where I am today, thats the end of it.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 16, 2013, 11:23:07 PM
like i said, way beyond your limited comprehension ... ::)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: RebelPants on January 16, 2013, 11:46:04 PM
So your solution is firstly have £10,000 or MORE for a HGV license and then we can all become truckers?
Once you have this HGV license you then have to either get employed or then Spend Another £50,000 on a wagon.
I have mates looking for work in heavy Goods driving in London. Not as easy to find as you would make out.
You can only pay if you have the money in all things. It is not a choice when you cannot afford a thing.
Mastermind? Or Not? You decide.
 :-X
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 16, 2013, 11:59:51 PM
So your solution is firstly have £10,000 or MORE for a HGV license and then we can all become truckers?
Once you have this HGV license you then have to either get employed or then Spend Another £50,000 on a wagon.
I have mates looking for work in heavy Goods driving in London. Not as easy to find as you would make out.
You can only pay if you have the money in all things. It is not a choice when you cannot afford a thing.
Mastermind? Or Not? You decide.
 :-X

No.

1)  A license is about 2,000 pending where you go for it, mine was only 5 yrs ago or so, so cant be much different, mine was with a known proven outfit too.
2)  Agencies are happy to employ you to start with, on MORE wage than i'm on now.
3)  A new wagon and trailer is about 250k plus, not that I'd buy one.

I didnt mention at all again, the fact of whether you could pay, more the option if needed.  There is plenty of agency work around, I used them for a good time, this after I walked straight into a company to start off, these companies are there too.

The fact of "getting employed" as you say, thats not the case, or I wouldn't of done it, I went to agencies and then from there I got took on by an employer I was with the agency to, thats how it works.

And yes, pick the right company / agency, they pay for it, mastermind ?  not really, and its easy to find, travel to it, I do 35 mile each way to mine.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 17, 2013, 12:14:16 AM
so you driving a £250 000 lorry now Lee, only i was convinced you were in sole charge of a street van ??
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 17, 2013, 12:16:46 AM
both :)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 17, 2013, 12:18:15 AM
my van goes fishing :)  and work :)

.... well, when some ****head doesn't nearly kill me on mi bike that is LOL
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: bobbins53 on January 17, 2013, 01:25:29 AM
 A banker, a Daily Mail reader and a benefit claimant are sitting at a table sharing 12 biscuits. The banker takes 11 and then tells the Daily Mail reader, “Watch out for the welfare scrounger, he wants your biscuit”.

 I would want the daily mail reader to have 4 biscuits and the benefit claimant to have 1 ...guess that makes me a commie liberal! seeing we live in a 3rd world country and money is so tight!
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on January 17, 2013, 03:47:18 AM
But Leewink does bring up an important point.  He mentions the fact he can not even find a one bedroom property.

when I cant even get a poxy flat as a single man, thats the joke of it all.

So, if you agree there is no one bedroom flats LeeWink, which you do, because you bought it up.  Then you also agree that there is no where for the person in a two bedroom property to go.  And as such if there is no where for him to go then it means there is no vacant two bedroom properties for the person in a three beroom property to go to. ect ect.

So what is your solution?  Just to make the poorest famillies pay and hope it somehow magically solves the problem?

If the problem is poverty in the social housing system, how is creating even more poverty going to help?

Do you even realise where this is all heading?  Do you realise that in a few years your job is going to be done by someone on a back to work training scheme.  Someone who will do the job, for nothing, or lose everything.   Then you will be on the dole too,  and claiming benefits,  until they decide you have been on it too long, and then they will put you back in the driving seat they took away from you... On a back to work training scheme... or lose everything.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: emtronea on January 17, 2013, 05:18:47 AM
Trucking.

Its not way beyond me either, I just take it as it is, it aint gonna change by anyone, I just dont see the problem, if your in to bigger house pay or move down, whats the problem, has anyone said you'll be moved to outer mongolia ?  no, if they rehouse near to the last, its all good, how many have asked where moving options are or talked over disruption to their kids ?............................................................

The problem is the housing shortage due to the over price rents and housing costs, . the huge expense of moving. the houses or flats thats been grouped for incoming new citezens, as international law demands the goverment to home incoming new citezens, before labour left, male single ppl dint have a right to be rehoused, now it doesnt matter if ure a male, female or disabled aparantly due to bein subject to the crown... moving house in this country wen ure poor isnt easy, espeshly if ure disabled living in a 2 bedroom house or your a single parent. or if ure just a single person. ya may not be moved to mongolia but if u cant afford to live in ya biggish propety your gona be owt on the street. social services are gona take ure kids off ya and ruin ya famly, single ppl or couples will lose ther dole money as ya cant get dole if ure homeless. disabled people arnt gona get ther warmth and die quicker on the street.. you used be able get 50p a day bein homeless u dont even get that no more. if ure asking the council to rehouse people, your insane as thousands of ppl and famly are already in dire street in councils up n down the country. the problem is lee the goverment is attacking the poor, the disabled, the ppl who get a lil help on top of ther pay to survive, famly and of course single ppl, without the stability in place to help every1. its gona be an absolute nightmare

It aint no different to me renting and the owner selling up is it, I gotta move ?....................... crap cant be helped, and that happens, but this is happening on a mass scale delibratly  :o

if u work and rent a 3 bedroom property for 2 ppl at £500 a week, and a dole who rents a 3 bed property on housing benefit at £100 a week for 2 ppl, in ure way of thinking u should lose ure £500 a week propety wether u worked for it or not, to downsize so ppl who have been having lots of kids should live in ure £500 a week house, as ure dening bigger famlys a place to live. unless u only agree with attacking the poor n disabled? it dont matter if u work for ya money and a place to live ure still denieng bigger famlys. ure reasoning only makes sence from a person with 1 way thinking.

 now if 2 ppl live in a 3 bedroom house who are m8s which thers alot of, and cant find a 2 bedroom house, but can find 2 one bedroom flats, do u think thats better to split the m8s up and get 2 housing benefits for 2, costing more to the state and taking more money off the tax payer.?

your just twisting it all to suit, its not snobbery that I chose to get on, its not bitter that i havent got kids, hampering society ?   what are you on.....

no twisting here, its about looking at the whole picture not just the frame

I and we have been in that position your on about, and worse, not that I want to explain, but "moaning" as you say wouldnt get me or us where we are today, so please, AGAIN AND AGAIN, whinge at me when you know what your on about, and stop presuming your the only one in this and i'm a snob for not !   I could of been where I was or where I am today, thats the end of it.

u may be a snob u may not be a snob, but u deffo need educating in ure opinion, to form a valid opinion, by supporting this, your supporting social clensing with not enough knowlage and enough no how on how things work, wen u know everything and educated ure self and if u still think its ok then ure deffo a liberal concervitive ass  :P

i appolgise for my spelling  :(
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 17, 2013, 08:52:36 AM
i dont agree theres no one bed flats, again which you assume, the reason i cant get one is because im single not because of anything else, and certainly not because im in a 2 bed one.

If there is a need to do this, then understanding isnt to difficult, i dont support anything which again and so seamingly apparent here, is your opinion of what I think.

I dont again like the government at all, again you think I'm this side or that side.

I aint fussed who does my job in years to come, when you break it down to wages, as you "seem" again to know so much about it, and jump at what you know.

The solution isnt pay like you keep saying again, there's choice, unless it'd be better with none ?  AGAIN, i dont have problem with how anyone lives at all, but seems everyone thinks I have because I stand alone and have a view.

Isnt assumption rife today !
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 17, 2013, 10:38:51 AM
... i see no problem in downscaling if you dont need it, when a family could, either that or pay for it.
???
... the reason i cant get one is because im single not because of anything else,

-------------------------------

i dont have problem with how anyone lives at all, but seems everyone thinks I have because I stand alone and have a view.
::)
Its about time they saw it all if you ask me.

-------------------------------

Isnt assumption rife today !
;)
People living in oversized properties and being paid my money to be there

-------------------------------

Job done, Lee
;)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: JamesC on January 17, 2013, 11:33:47 AM
We live in social housing. It's a new build 3 bed house with 1 double bedroom and 2 small box rooms. We have two children, 1 10 month old baby and a 6 year old.

1) In this house we cannot even fit both kids into one room with all their stuff, let alone the situation of having a baby in the same room as a 6 year old it wouldn't work as the baby needs to not be disturbed while sleeping.

2) The council dont even have a 2 bed property around here to re house us into a smaller property. We would have to move miles away from our work, friends and family, move our eldest child to a different school and basicly live isolated away from the people that we know and love.

3) If we begin to rent privately we will never be accepted back into social housing. We would loose all stability because of short term rent contracts and never be knowing when we might have to move house again. Moving house is expensive and a big upheval for a family so we don't want to put ourselves in a position where this could become a fairly regular situation.

Because of these changes to housing benefit we will now have to find another £60 per month to pay towards our rent. To us this is a huge amount of money. We are already very restricted with our budget and this move will make things even harder for us. The one thing that annoys me so much about this change is that housing associations and councils don't even have enough of the right size properties to re house people, so effectively this change becomes another stealth cut to the incomes of the poorest of society.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Derek on January 17, 2013, 12:20:44 PM
Thats exactly right. What I cannot get my head around is why our political leaders who are supposedly amongst the best educated and intelligent cannot see that stopping homebuilding leads to a home shortage whilst the population is rising. They are more than aware of this as they are constantly whining about paying pensions.

You cant solve a housing shortage by swapping the same number of people into the same number of homes and thats hardly rocket science.

You can only assume there is another agenda going on and again its not rocket science to see clearly what that is. I'm totally ashamed of the Lib Dems for not screaming the house down over this, shocked and appauled that Labour are not prepared to stand up and fight this viscous nonsense.

The only Party doing as they normally would are the Tories which sadly are only doing what they like to do. We should know by know to expect nothing better from all of Mrs T's  trainees
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 17, 2013, 01:24:39 PM
Yes i'd agree there Derek, unfortunately and the crunch being, we live in a starved country of all things, road, care, policing, housing, the lot.  And whilst they can screw what they can they will, unfotunately its these poor folk, and like ive said and mean, its another law passed to screw money yes, unfortunately left to the choice of pay or leave, thats there view on it, and that transpires to all, including me or anyone.

AGAIN, it doesnt matter who runs the country when its F****d anyway, you just have to see it.

Its, i'm unsure of your seeming immature stance on this all, they passed it not me, can we change it ?   the same as all laws passed, sh1t but reality.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 17, 2013, 01:37:39 PM
Yes i'd agree there Derek, unfortunately and the crunch being, we live in a starved country of all things, road, care, policing, housing, the lot.  And whilst they can screw what they can they will, unfotunately its these poor folk, and like ive said and mean, its another law passed to screw money yes, unfortunately left to the choice of pay or leave, thats there view on it, and that transpires to all, including me or anyone.

AGAIN, it doesnt matter who runs the country when its F****d anyway, you just have to see it.

Its, i'm unsure of your seeming immature stance on this all, they passed it not me, can we change it ?   the same as all laws passed, sh1t but reality.

now you have come full turn, i'm sure you'll notice mine was more persuasive than immature ;)

not sure how folk have choice, where money is scarce and alternative accommodation even more so, but there again naivety will lead the ignorant to draw misguided conclusion ... 
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 17, 2013, 02:41:11 PM
full turn of what ?  I know the governments sh1te, I know the countries F%%%d, and I know changes have to be made ?   wheres full turn in that ?  I only started voting a year ago, why I dont know even now, because I can realise it doesnt matter who's in, they all f$$k it one way or another, if it aint the banks its something else, the governments ****e cos it makes changes to help the country, course it is, simply because theyve changed something, AGAIN, are you gonna change it ?  another lost statement you wont pick up on, apart from poking personal stuff at me.

Just you keep justifying yourself, and upping ya self, and bear in mind I was talking about bigger families utilising smaller properties if need must, not 1 bedroom flats, for me or anyone.  (and that doesnt mean pathetically paste my statement about AGAIN my personal findings, and not in general term toward everyone)

This thread has been created by mis-judgements and not by me, you asked and presumed, I just said and answered, your mis-belief in what I said, your assumptions of who I was and what I do, so on that, where's a full turn ?   at least I can say what I mean without keep editing all the way through, and moreso I can be me, who see's it as it is.   No-one likes change, but on the whole we need to, if there's a result for our F$$$$d country, brilliant, I dont want to see it go bust, and thats at everyones cost, not who's even caused it, am I bothered, who cares, its gotta happen, I cant change it so I live with it.   I dont want diesel to go up costing me now over 160 a month to goto work but it has, I dont want my food bills to go up every god knows when but it does, i dont want cost of living in general to be terrible comparing countries but it is.  Everything goes up and what can I do ?   exactly.   So going back to your "I whinge" statements, I hardly do that, in fact I have bettered myself to compensate it all, but then i'm a snob for that too, and again, you call it persuasive if you like.
Title: housing benefit
Post by: igetcha on January 17, 2013, 02:49:40 PM
Guys, can ALL parties that are squabbling play nicely please..........if you can't discuss something like adults then don't bother contributing to the thread
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fynger on January 17, 2013, 02:51:04 PM
Saw a sign in a VW bus window in the 70's...it said..." DON'T VOTE IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THEM ".....I've never voted .
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 17, 2013, 02:55:30 PM
sorry scott, but they ask and presume ....  sorry again.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 17, 2013, 03:17:09 PM
i see those that are effected by these alterations are more obviously against them, and some to whom no effect will occur, more willing to dance the governments tune ...

while anyone believing those who struggle in society should be penalised, they might first consider their input to both the argument, but moreover their contribution or indeed take, from that same society they look down upon.

i see renewed distinction made in latter posts, where now allotted family size has found perception of gravitas, as if it enforces some divisive way to try substantiate the unsubstantiable.

my circumstances as with most, will receive no benefit nor lift by supporting the extension of misery toward those in receipt of housing benefit and i feel slightly more justified in arguing the case in favour of those effected than i do toward those affecting.

where one UK citizen begrudges their part to the system, i feel their part of credibility thereafter deserves equal celebration as they would typically proclaim while depriving ...

Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fynger on January 17, 2013, 07:13:06 PM
Did I speak ??
Title: housing benefit
Post by: igetcha on January 17, 2013, 07:22:28 PM
i see those that are effected by these alterations are more obviously against them, and some to whom no effect will occur, more willing to dance the governments tune ...

while anyone believing those who struggle in society should be penalised, they might first consider their input to both the argument, but moreover their contribution or indeed take, from that same society they look down upon.

i see renewed distinction made in latter posts, where now allotted family size has found perception of gravitas, as if it enforces some divisive way to try substantiate the unsubstantiable.

my circumstances as with most, will receive no benefit nor lift by supporting the extension of misery toward those in receipt of housing benefit and i feel slightly more justified in arguing the case in favour of those effected than i do toward those affecting.

where one UK citizen begrudges their part to the system, i feel their part of credibility thereafter deserves equal celebration as they would typically proclaim while depriving ...

As riddles go Ged, that is definitely one of your finest yet! :D
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 17, 2013, 07:23:12 PM
As riddles go Ged, that is definitely one of your finest yet! :D

thanks bud ... 8)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Derek on January 17, 2013, 07:26:41 PM
reminds me of Churchill at times......Winston that is, not the insurance company  ;)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: itsmeitis on January 17, 2013, 07:27:04 PM
reminds me of Churchill at times......Winston that is, not the insurance company  ;)

 ;D ... :P
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: ukric on January 17, 2013, 07:34:49 PM
Made perfect sense to me
Title: housing benefit
Post by: igetcha on January 17, 2013, 07:52:50 PM
Potato?
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fynger on January 17, 2013, 08:03:42 PM
No....OK.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Niteowl on January 17, 2013, 10:28:07 PM
Next election, im voting for GED and REB in a coalition :-)
I would place Scott in charge of the newly formed governments review on all things E-Cig related (cos he likes doing reviews  :P ) Can i ask in advance for the job as chancellor? Not that i think i would be good at it, but it would be fun to have the rich gits by the bollox for a change  :P
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: RebelPants on January 17, 2013, 10:31:26 PM
I cannot sit at the same cabinet table with you mate if you are gonna keep calling me Mr.Pink!
Also, If you are gonna be Chancellor, i will be voting against any of your proposals relating to giving away FREE Liverpool Tops in a
devious attempt to influence the young minds of Britain.  :P
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on January 18, 2013, 01:36:56 AM
Quote
I dont agree theres no one bed flats, again which you assume, the reason i cant get one is because im single not because of anything else, and certainly not because im in a 2 bed one.

If there are some empty one bedroom flats going spare I do not understand why they would want to leave them empty rather than move single homeless people into them.   

Is that really what they are doing?  Or, is it more likely that there is none available?

And if it is more likely that none are available then would it not be true that they are charging people what amounts to a type of fine, for under occupency, when these peoples real choice consists of either pay up or become homeless?  We are talking about the poorest people in the country,  and yet we are here talking about charging them a fine for living in accomedation that they have no choice but to live in or choose the streets. 

It is fine and good to have a liberterianism anti-government point of view on many things in life,  but I feel we must understand and remember that the difference between a liberterian and dickensian society is just a small jump which involves nothing more than ignoring the plight of the poorest in our communtiy.

LeeWink,  I am glad of your posts and am not trying to say you are wrong or bad.  To do so would be to assume I am right and good which itself would be wrong and bad. I am just making political arguments here and although it does make some assumptions and generalisations it would be incorrect of me to make too many assumptions about the person posting more than I need to make my point.  I do sometimes screw up and allow these assumptions to label someone wrongly, I am ashamed I did this to you.  I am just making an argument for the poorest in society here that happen to be under occupying their homes,  and you are making an argument for those who are finding it hard to get accomadation.   The only solution I can see is to build enough one bedroom properties that we can always have empty ones.  Once we have achieved that we can then start to fine people for under occupency of two bedroom properties.  To fine them before they have a chance of avoiding the fine is wrong I feel. 

To me it seems no different to fining someone for being poor and having a spare bedroom if you charge them before offering them alternative property.
 
I make another asumption that we both want there to be clear difference between those who work and those that do not,  but I am also sure we both agree that the difference should not be who lives under a roof and who lives in the street.  The problem with this policy that is being introduced in April is that it seems likely that some poor will end up on the streets.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Niteowl on January 18, 2013, 03:02:59 AM
I cannot sit at the same cabinet table with you mate if you are gonna keep calling me Mr.Pink!
Also, If you are gonna be Chancellor, i will be voting against any of your proposals relating to giving away FREE Liverpool Tops in a
devious attempt to influence the young minds of Britain.  :P

Called u REB didnt I  :P :P :P and as for the giving away of free Liverpool tops.....FREE...FREEE ??? Im gonna charge for em m8 :P We need it to be able to afford Lionel Messi, cos thats who were gonna need if we wanna win anything in the next few years  ??? And while im doing the budget, i'll be standin in my Liverpool shirt with The Demi-God KEEGAN on the back  ;D

No need to worry tho Reb, i'll be introducing a "sympathy" payment to ALL fans from either Manchester or London  ;) as they all obviously have a deficiency in the "common sense Chromosome".
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 18, 2013, 12:32:19 PM
I understand your point entirely Kondor, and no problems oki, our "lot" have been there and seen exactly whats argued here, so i'm not condemning anyone, it certainly will be a hard change with many decisions forced, including as ive said MANY people I know and many who will have to make change aswell, and i'm not explaining it, but even hardships possibly facing myself in the future.

Again, no worries and have a good day :)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Tinytears on January 18, 2013, 09:37:38 PM
Every council has a house swap site where you could swap your larger or smaller house and get the size of house you're looking for either in the same area, town or a completely different part of the UK if you wish. It's more of a shuffle to reduce the waiting list for housing and gives tenants the choice for a bigger family to swap with someone who's kids have left home to move into something smaller.

After over 3 years on a waiting list for suitable housing I've finally got exactly what I need from the swap site, just waiting for the 2 different councils to approve it.

Private tenants have this option as well if both parties Landlords agree to the swap.

Diane
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: leewink on January 18, 2013, 09:55:49 PM
yes they do tiny :)

vape on, lee
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Derek on January 19, 2013, 12:28:11 AM
On a voluntary basis this is all fine and dandy.

What I find unacceptable is fiscal punishment for those where such punishment is not affordable......by any standard thats just plain wrong. Its economic cleansing and frankly I suspect will cost more to implement and administer than it will ever produce in revenue. Its certainly never going to make more housing available and thats the real issue as more and more and more people fall into the poverty trap.

Imagine if you will the grandparent who can no longer have their grandchildren to stay over or the parent(s) whose children are off to university. Such persons now HAVE to move or part with money they quite clearly dont have or they wouldnt be in receipt of benefit in the first place.

Come on politico's, your supposed to be the best and brightest amongst us with the publics and countrys best interests at heart
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: JamesC on January 19, 2013, 09:45:31 PM
Welsh government have now made a u-turn on this, i just hope british government do too.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: emtronea on January 20, 2013, 03:12:51 PM
3 years is good going, most ppl are on those list for around 5years  :o now add the extra few quid its gona cost ya waiting  :o
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on May 13, 2013, 01:15:40 AM
We all knew this would start happening when the greedy pigs in government wanted their tax cuts to make themselves better off.   If the rich being rich and paying low taxes was the answer then we would be swimming in jobs,  because they are richer than ever and are paying less taxes than ever.  No,  we do not live in a society where the rich provide jobs, we never have, it is the consumer that provides jobs and we all know it.  Alan Sugar has never created a single job,  it is his customers that have created them.  Take the customers away and the jobs go,  look at the high street stores all shutting down for proof.  So someone answer me,  if we give the consumers less money, and instead give more to the rich, what do you think is going to happen to unemployment?

And in a society which treats those on benefits like scum leeches,  this is the end result...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/suicide-bedroom-tax-victim-stephanie-1883600 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/suicide-bedroom-tax-victim-stephanie-1883600)

Like they care that this woman has committed suicide,  all I can say is her blood is on the hands of the government, more interested in chasing failed policies than fixing a problem.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 13, 2013, 10:54:10 AM
Aww bless her  :(
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 06:24:35 PM
Got to feel sorry for the driver though. Pretty selfish of her to chuck herself in front of a lorry.
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 06:27:55 PM
Also if she was as disabled as it made out, why couldn't she get disability benefit? The piece suggested she wasn't entitled to it. I know of someone who gets the maximum amount of disability benefit because she "can't walk" yet she goes break dancing when out on the piss. There is obviously more to stories than rags such as the mirror print.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 13, 2013, 06:49:22 PM
Of course,  I bet he's devastated  :(
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on May 13, 2013, 07:40:31 PM
Also if she was as disabled as it made out, why couldn't she get disability benefit? The piece suggested she wasn't entitled to it. I know of someone who gets the maximum amount of disability benefit because she "can't walk" yet she goes break dancing when out on the piss. There is obviously more to stories than rags such as the mirror print.

is it your mom?
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: justin case on May 13, 2013, 07:45:27 PM
here we go.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: squid on May 13, 2013, 07:50:49 PM
2 3 4
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 13, 2013, 08:17:01 PM
When someone has a break down and are so depressed they cant handle life any more they dont think of anyone or anything, they become blinkered, they just want to end the unbelievable mental anguish they are going through......I lost one of my friends this way...He walked off a mutli-story car park building because he couldn't handle life any more.....To me he was a hysterically funny person, he had an amazing sense of humour.. He had a supportive family and friends (But didnt let anyone in on how bad he felt, we knew he was depressed, but even with help from Doctors, it didnt make a difference.... he couldn't handle life any more. When he went I felt sooo angry with him...But now I know he just couldnt handle the pain and fear life brought him....  :'(

So,  like this lady who has tried to cope with her fears and worries. She obviously got to a point where she just couldnt handle them anymore, be it if she was on benefits or not....She was obviously deeply depressed... And its sad that she felt so low not to talk things through openly with someone....But then again many people who suffer from depression think they are a burden on Family and friends, they loose their self worth and think the world is better off without them.. :(
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 08:38:23 PM
Also if she was as disabled as it made out, why couldn't she get disability benefit? The piece suggested she wasn't entitled to it. I know of someone who gets the maximum amount of disability benefit because she "can't walk" yet she goes break dancing when out on the piss. There is obviously more to stories than rags such as the mirror print.

is it your mom?

Is what my mom. Mine works for a living. She has **** loads of spare rooms and gets off her arse to pay for them.
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 08:40:06 PM
Also if she was as disabled as it made out, why couldn't she get disability benefit? The piece suggested she wasn't entitled to it. I know of someone who gets the maximum amount of disability benefit because she "can't walk" yet she goes break dancing when out on the piss. There is obviously more to stories than rags such as the mirror print.

is it your mom?

Ah, I get it. No. I've come out with some offensive bollocks when I've been pissed up too, so I guess I'll let that slide :)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 13, 2013, 08:44:07 PM
Yeah dont make me put you on the naughty step Jim....  ;D

Just because we may know someone who abuses the system, doesn't mean every ones the same....  :P
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 08:47:03 PM
Yeah dont make me put you on the naughty step Jim....  ;D

Just because we may know someone who abuses the system, doesn't mean every ones the same....  :P

Not saying that, all I am saying is that we don't know she wasn't abusing it either.

She was offered a bungalow, but it said she turned it down because it was a five minute walk to the bingo hall, or whatever it said, lol.

The depression is totally different to her housing issue imo, although I appreciate it probably didn't help. She obviously had her problems before.
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 08:49:24 PM
Yeah dont make me put you on the naughty step Jim....  ;D

Just because we may know someone who abuses the system, doesn't mean every ones the same....  :P

Not saying that, all I am saying is that we don't know she wasn't abusing it either.

She was offered a bungalow, but it said she turned it down because it was a five minute walk to the bingo hall, or whatever it said, lol.

The depression is totally different to her housing issue imo, although I appreciate it probably didn't help. She obviously had her problems before.

Still sad she did what she did though.

..and the lorry driver ain't getting that off with a 2.50 wax and wash.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 13, 2013, 08:52:14 PM
Yes, it does sound like she was very depressed....It can be hard to cope with some of the simplest things in life with depression..and so maybe she couldn't see an answer to it all...Being in a bungalow, 30 mins from her family etc. might have put her over the edge....Help of not....Change can be overwhelming for some...

Title: housing benefit
Post by: ukric on May 13, 2013, 08:55:37 PM
And on that basis is it the argument that nothing should be changed in case someone might commit suicide?

Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 08:58:06 PM
It's not a pretty sight watching people go under a lorry. Seen it twice in the last month. I've seen the state of the driver when it wasn't his fault. He doesn't care, all he thinks about is the unexpected speed bump. Bottom line, it ain't the governments fault. That was what I was trying to convey anyway. She obviously had terrible issues before hand and was looking for a way out.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 13, 2013, 08:58:36 PM
No.....I'm just saying that she obviously was very depressed and couldn't handle it......
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 09:00:51 PM
And on that basis is it the argument that nothing should be changed in case someone might commit suicide?

Yeah can see them in Whitehall now.

"**** Cameron, give em their box rooms back. They are dropping like lemmings"

"Oh no clegg, another one did a Daley off beachy head. Get me a camomile"
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 09:02:04 PM
And on that basis is it the argument that nothing should be changed in case someone might commit suicide?

Yeah can see them in Whitehall now.

"**** Cameron, give em their box rooms back. They are dropping like lemmings"

"Oh no clegg, another one did a Daley off beachy head. Get me a camomile"

Bring that bespectacled tosser with the shopper back, we need to learn better swear words.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 13, 2013, 09:09:34 PM
I dont mean  to say everyone who's on benefits or is a pensioner that they shouldn't have to pay,  its not convenient that one person might be living in a 2 or 3 bedroom house on their own and having housing benefit to pay for that house when a family could be living there.......But if someone is genuinely ill and finding it all hard to deal with, does that mean they're not entitled to some sympathy?

Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 09:15:31 PM
I dont mean  to say everyone who's on benefits or is a pensioner that they shouldn't have to pay,  its not convenient that one person might be living in a 2 or 3 bedroom house on their own and having housing benefit to pay for that house when a family could be living there.......But if someone is genuinely ill and finding it all hard to deal with, does that mean they're not entitled to some sympathy?

Not sure, but she's certainly got mine, as she felt the need to kill herself.

If someone makes a conscious decision to live off the state and never work, then I have a problem with that. Everything else falls into my sympathy bracket and I'am willing to help.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on May 13, 2013, 09:16:07 PM
And on that basis is it the argument that nothing should be changed in case someone might commit suicide?
"nothing" is a strong word.

I think the truth is,  "somethings" should not be changed if there is a high possibility it will cause someone to commit suicide when there are alternatives, such as building one bedroom and two bedroom properties,  creating jobs rather than finding ways to terminate employment ect ect.

Dare I throw a question back at you?
Should we value our success on the lack of suicides, or our achievements of libertarianism ideals?

Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: squid on May 13, 2013, 09:18:45 PM
There may be trouble ahead / But while there's music and moonlight (moonlight and music) and love and romance / Let's face the music and dance
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 09:30:35 PM
And on that basis is it the argument that nothing should be changed in case someone might commit suicide?
"nothing" is a strong word.

I think the truth is,  "somethings" should not be changed if there is a high possibility it will cause someone to commit suicide when there are alternatives, such as building one bedroom and two bedroom properties,  creating jobs rather than finding ways to terminate employment ect ect.

Dare I throw a question back at you?
Should we value our success on the lack of suicides, or our achievements of libertarianism ideals?

I don't like the way the are screwing the poorly paid either tbh. They said they were bringing a benefit cap of 26k did they not? Who here earns 26k? I would bring the cap down to 10 grand. They said they were going to make it more profitable to work. It's only better if you have a post graduate half decent job. That just shows they are out of touch.

This suicide thing is a load of bollocks imo and is just the usual red label way to screw the current government over in the eyes of its readers. I am not a massive fan either but there is no way that woman killed herself solely because she was getting charged another 20 quid a week for her rent. The council wouldn't have kicked her out. She wouldn't have been left with nothing. If she let the arrears run out of control, they wouldn't have done anything. They can't have what you ain't got.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on May 13, 2013, 10:18:43 PM
What they should have done is created a "rent cap".    Lets be honest,  no one on benefits has ever received even close to 26k,  the only reason that there is a claim some do is because some landlords are happy to rip the tax payer off by charging stupid rents and charging it to the gov.  The person on benefits has never seen it that's for sure.

For me it is not a matter of red, or blue politics.  For me it is purely economical.  The wealth of a nation, any nation, requires money to be circulated.  There are a few ways to achieve it,  job creation, and wealth distribution are the obvious ones.  It forces money to circulate.   At the moment the whole idea of the government is based on nothing more than trying to make the poor as poor as possible, while trying to make the rich as rich as possible.

Now, I am not totally against that, but it depends how it is done.   I have seen it done differently,  but it requires money and investment and this government are trying to achieve it without spending anything.  For instance, back in the 80s, in Thatchers day,  if you had been unemployed for a certain amount of time you could go on a "community program".  This was a great idea,  taking people not in training or education and giving them a reason to get up.  In return for going to work, and improving the local area (it involved tidying gardens, building walls, painting living rooms of pensioners ect)  the person would get some extra money in their dole. 

This government, rather than improve the local area,  decided to send them all to poundland and tesco instead!   Thus rather than creating employment, they were actually creating unemployment, because only an idiot would set someone on when a flow of free labour was coming through the door.

Now do not get me wrong,  I like poundland and tesco,  but I doubt they really need charity.  Where as you can probably find someone, or somewhere in your local area that does need charity,  that could really do with some free labour.  The irony of this is I thought that is what Cameron was going on about when he was talking about big society.  And if he had of done it,  maybe the country would not be in a mess.  Maybe a few more people would have a few more quid in there pockets to buy stuff, and maybe tesco and poundland would need more staff to keep up with the demand of people wanting cheap goods.

Things were hard, but there was a path out of it.  A path that some decided to just do the minimum even back then,  but the minimum was helping folks out and seeing old ladies smile at their new, free, garden.  You got to meet people you would not normally meet,  work along side em, it just felt good. Every so often someone would hand in their notice because they had managed to get a proper job.  Me myself, I got a job on the railways through that community program, and earned a lot, and spent a lot.....   and drank a lot :)
 
My point is,  it does not have to be like this.  I have seen the conservatives do much better.
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 10:28:45 PM
What they should have done is created a "rent cap".    Lets be honest,  no one on benefits has ever received even close to 26k.

TLTR :D

But yeah and the rest. London ain't cheap and when your breeding like rabbits in order to get an extra 24 cans of wife beater a week, it soon adds up.

Where have you been?

It's not just in London either. If their kids can't be arsed to go to school because they are stoned from the night before and they have been too busy twocing cars, they get "diagnosed" with ADHD, then the parents get all kinds of extra disability benefits.

I'am not kidding, 26k is sod all to that lot.

Me and you though, that's a lot. Labour didn't give a toss, the conservatives seem to care a little more but they are going too overboard with the benefits for the high earners.

It's difficult for someone to come up with something for everyone. The can't be arsed attitude will have to take it on the chin.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on May 13, 2013, 10:42:32 PM
I did not know that kids that are diagnosed with ADHD get disability benefits!  Where you getting this from?
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 10:45:55 PM
I did not know that kids that are diagnosed with ADHD get disability benefits!  Where you getting this from?

It's common knowledge. Just google it.

First page turned up this.. http://www.adhdandyou.co.uk/Parents-Carers/support-materials/financial-support.aspx

Sure it's a gateway for the poor souls.
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 10:50:08 PM
Anyone with a kid that has ever raised its voice, put your claims in quick at the above link.

..Ever had a kid that didn't want to go to bed?

..Ever had a kid that wanted to play football for ten minutes longer?

Get that bloody form filled in. You are harbouring a monstrosity.
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 10:50:16 PM
:P
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on May 13, 2013, 11:14:32 PM
Mate, my kid has ADHD,  I do not get anything like that for him.  He goes to bed on time, he does not nick cars, and he doesn't even swear.

He isn't disabled,  yea he needs reminding stuff when ever he walks over a road (he still doesn't look before he steps out), and he can be a bit weird from time to time, but he is a good kid mate.  And he claims nothing,  and I do not claim anything for his ADHD either.  First I have heard about it.  But from reading the website you posted the kid would have to be way way more than a bit weird to claim this sort of stuff.  The only thing he claims (for want of a better word) is some counseling, where he just receives advice and tips on concentrating.   It is called CBT,  and it is basically trying to build habits into him that he finds hard but other kids find easy.

When your kid comes to you and tells you that he wants medication so he can be like the other kids it isn't nice.   But I wouldn't call it a disability,  it just means he has to try harder to be normal, the teachers need to give him slight allowances and understand his mind drifts and I have to keep an eye on him next to busy roads. 

Do not believe everything you read,  for instance this...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046924/Parent-child-ADHD-Have-free-car-1-5bn-taxpayer-funded-scheme.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046924/Parent-child-ADHD-Have-free-car-1-5bn-taxpayer-funded-scheme.html)
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 13, 2013, 11:41:02 PM
Sounds more autistic than ADHD to me. Misdiagnosed maybe. Wish him all the best.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: DirkDampf on May 14, 2013, 03:41:59 AM
Is hyperactivity a disabilty? I might could make a claim for my lad.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: stevemontuno on May 14, 2013, 03:20:23 PM
i used to be super hyper when i was a kid,,,1 drop of kiora and it sent me wazzy,,,,,i would run everywhere i was going,,,,bit like forest gump on acid.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 14, 2013, 03:23:08 PM
Lol....I could do with some kiora  ;D
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: funkybunch on May 14, 2013, 03:25:01 PM
Lol....I could do with some kiora  ;D


That takes me back..........it's too orangey for crows.....liked the advert........hated the drink :D
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: stevemontuno on May 14, 2013, 03:32:28 PM
hehe,,,,luckly after a while my dad sussed out it was like rocket fuel and i was banned from drinking it and put on pure juice only,,lol  fortunately i found the pure stuff much nicer,
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: stevemontuno on May 14, 2013, 03:34:08 PM
i did score some more wazzy stuff though,,,it came in the form of Dip-Dabs ,,,lol
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 14, 2013, 03:49:06 PM
@ Steve.... Imagining it now..... :))

@ Mark...was it that freaky crow that looked like it was on wacky backy..hehe  :D
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: funkybunch on May 14, 2013, 03:49:53 PM
i did score some more wazzy stuff though,,,it came in the form of Dip-Dabs ,,,lol


Now you're talking :D

I once snorted a sherbet fountain......accidently ;D


@Fi yes it was, very cool advert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB2xYdjt7bE# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB2xYdjt7bE#)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 14, 2013, 03:56:21 PM
I know we've gone off topic...but I'd just like to say.....I bet that stung mark  :o
Title: housing benefit
Post by: Jimblob on May 14, 2013, 06:30:04 PM
Lol, I remember that advert. I bet people would class it as racist nowadays :P
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on May 15, 2013, 12:35:36 PM
Today a high court judicial review starts,  after the government failed to get it stopped.  As Jimblob pointed out it is wrong that people that need the extra bedroom due to disability should have to pay the bedroom tax.  Even members of the government seem to be a bit confused over it too, as they keep spouting that disabled people are exempt.

An interesting case of one of the 10 families that are taking it to the high court involves a family that were given a three bedroom property because it was agreed that their disabled son needed a separate bedroom.   However even though it was agreed, it seems they still have to pay the bedroom tax because he lives in the property with his carers (his family). 

Apparently,  disabled people are only exempt from the bedroom tax if their carers do not actually live with them.   I think most people would agree that this would be very unusual as in most cases when someone needs a carer the disabled person and the carer want to live under the same roof.   The truth is very very few people are exempt from the bedroom tax, and ironically the more disabled they are, and therefore the more likely it is that a carer will live with them,  the less likely they are to be exempt.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 15, 2013, 12:39:20 PM
Its a bit of a shambles....  :(
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: funkybunch on May 15, 2013, 01:26:49 PM
Its a bit of a shambles....  :(


Why does that not surprise me  :)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: Fiona on May 15, 2013, 02:01:17 PM
Doubt half of them know their A*** from their elbow  :P
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: justin case on May 15, 2013, 02:25:56 PM
politicians don't just make this stuff up off the top of their heads....they take advise from thousands of people in the health and benefits world before a policy is formulated.  if they have made an error then so have thousands of other people that should have known better....
and I'm not defending politicians,  they are all scum the lot of them.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on May 15, 2013, 02:55:47 PM
All governments here have a history of ignoring advisors.  Take the famous Prof David Nutt shambles of the last government.  What was it that ex-postman said when advised by his advisors in a public way that he was wrong?  Oh yea "advisors advise, government decides". 

The list of advisors that have told the government what they are doing is wrong is endless,  they decide though, to ignore all the advice (very often public advice from charities representing the poorest) they are given except that which they feels suits their bigger goals (representing the bankers).  Lets not kid ourtselves that any government, left or right, takes independent advice and then acts on it.  They do take advice from all corners, they just choose to ignore the bits that their party members and doners would not agree with and go instead for the policies the bankers love.

They were advised many times how this would effect disabled people,  so much so that they even decided to change the rules several times in a bid to load it with non meaningfull spin (eg. disabled are exempt when they are clearly not as seen by todays high court action).  If they were being advised so much that it was bad, why did they do it? Because they think the voters will buy it,  as long as they can convince enough of them that people who claim benefits are cheating scum.
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: RebelPants on May 15, 2013, 05:47:56 PM
If you were a rich man. And you wanted to make yourself and your rich mates richer in a recession.
What would you do?
How about getting your mates into government and forcing down the price of wages.
Enabling tax cuts, and cutting government spending on the majority of the population?
Create jobs? No increase unemployment, bring down wages and force the poor to work for less if they can find work!
How about, forcing the poor and disabled out of there homes or even trying to privatise the National Health service?
Personally I think the rich man and his government is selling a lie. This lie will sell the little that is left so far unsold
in the latest UK fire sale. Read the advice given and make up your own minds.
Either way, you cannot blame the poor for poverty. And the cannot blame the Homeless or those claiming housing benefit for the price
of Private landlord rents.

   Rich-poor divide accelerating, says OECD
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22545210 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22545210)

UK unemployment rises as wages growth slows
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10058222/UK-unemployment-rises-as-wages-growth-slows.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10058222/UK-unemployment-rises-as-wages-growth-slows.html)

IMF's Lipton adds pressure on UK to change economic course
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/20/uk-britain-imf-idUKBRE93J0H020130420 (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/20/uk-britain-imf-idUKBRE93J0H020130420)

firms that dodge paying the minimum wage
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scandal-of-firms-that-dodge-paying-the-minimum-wage-8580941.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scandal-of-firms-that-dodge-paying-the-minimum-wage-8580941.html)

16-24s on zero hours contracts at work
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/22528914 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/22528914)

UK unemployment rises to 2.52 million
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22536437 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22536437)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: RebelPants on May 16, 2013, 02:45:07 PM
How do they SELL these lies?
Well look at this report:

Michael Gove gets his educational facts from marketing surveys for Premier Inn and UKTV Gold:
'..... few would consider either Premier Inn or UKTV Gold to be organisations on the cutting edge of educational research. Few that is except Education Secretary Michael Gove.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dumbing-down-minister-michael-gove-gets-his-educational-facts-from-marketing-surveys-for-premier-inn-and-uktv-gold-8614525.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dumbing-down-minister-michael-gove-gets-his-educational-facts-from-marketing-surveys-for-premier-inn-and-uktv-gold-8614525.html)
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on May 16, 2013, 08:44:10 PM
Exactly mate,  they just look for random sales crap that fits whatever it is they are trying to pedal and sell it to us gullible folk as research. 
The work and pensions lord got his arse handed to him on a plate in last nights questions.  He dropped a right clanger in the middle of it, admitting that the bedroom tax was first and foremost about saving money, and not as they have previously spun, about fairness.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/house-of-commons-22544406 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/house-of-commons-22544406)

They also bought up a case of a couple where the woman has spina bifida, and therefore needed a special bed, and as such her husband could not sleep in the same room.  Again, because he is her carer and he is living with her,  they are being charged £60 a month bedroom tax.

Are we really saying that this couple should not be allowed two bedrooms?  and should be charged £60 a month?
Title: Re: housing benefit
Post by: kondor101 on July 30, 2013, 02:15:32 PM
Just in case anyone still thinks disabled people are exempt from the bedroom tax it might be worth watching the news today. 

What a stupid government,  what a stupid stupid government.