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Device Chat => Home Built Devices => Topic started by: lordjasper1988 on January 09, 2013, 11:20:39 PM

Title: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: lordjasper1988 on January 09, 2013, 11:20:39 PM
hey there boys and girls, i got sent a gripper vv from a very generous erc member (thanks Capt12B) and ive been thinking...

i like it, i do but i wanna mod! i know you cant do a straight 5v passthrough, but... what about a vv passthrough? can i just take its guts and solder it to a usb cable or do i need to geek it up a bit and get scientific with resistors ???

p.s. im not trying to offend anyone by saying "geek it up" im a geek and proud of it lol

what are your thoughts?
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: itsmeitis on January 09, 2013, 11:36:49 PM
hey there boys and girls, i got sent a gripper vv from a very generous erc member (thanks Capt12B) and ive been thinking...

thats sooooo spooky ... we have a Capt12B too here at ECR :P
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: itsmeitis on January 09, 2013, 11:41:58 PM
i like it, i do but i wanna mod! i know you cant do a straight 5v passthrough, but... what about a vv passthrough? can i just take its guts and solder it to a usb cable or do i need to geek it up a bit and get scientific with resistors ???

a passthrough is a pass through ... i.e it passes a fixed voltage for example from a USB, down a wire and to a switched atty connection.

VV on the other hand is variable ...

you could place a capable USB rechargable alongside its charger in before the electronics though, so keep the functions of the grippers board ... this would be a VV charge and vape system
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: diz on January 09, 2013, 11:52:26 PM
My thoughts are that plugging it straight into a USB socket and bypassing the battery will not be advisable - according to the USB specification. In the USB spec a device is not supposed to draw more than 1 amp from the USB chain (500mA for USB2 and 900mA for USB3). Batteries used in the Gripper need to chuck out more current than that. These potential power issues may not affect some PCs (like desktops with beefy USB supplies) but may not work with laptops and may well cause issues with USB ports themselves and the USB power chain inside the computer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power)

You could get round this of course by plugging the USB cable into a USB power adapter (wall wart). Remember that it should be rated for at least 4 amps output though.

Also, more importantly, the Gripper is designed for 4.3V or less, rather than the 5V the USB chain provides. This may cause issues with the internals of your Gripper. Adding a resistor only serves to waste power in reducing voltage, so a power regulator might be a better bet to use instead!
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: lordjasper1988 on January 09, 2013, 11:56:50 PM
sorry guys I meant ecr lol and I'm not wanting a pass through and charge like the ego passthrough, I'm talking about attaching a usb to the gripper vv's boards, instead of the battery, so it would go

usb > gripper guts > cartomiser

I should have said earlier there will be no battery.
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: diz on January 09, 2013, 11:59:02 PM
That's what I thought you were after and that's what my previous reply refers to.
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: itsmeitis on January 10, 2013, 12:30:34 AM
me too ... there was a time when USB passthroughs were all the rage ... then later the more refined charge and vape system.

realisticly the same system as is currently within the gripper is pehaps the one to best follow ...

Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: lordjasper1988 on January 10, 2013, 12:33:35 AM
itsmeitis are you saying it will work or not? and I'm going to be using a usb wall plug to power it
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: itsmeitis on January 10, 2013, 12:40:31 AM
im saying i wouldn't do it ... the gripper is designed for battery use and as Diz pointed out batteries are different voltage and capable of higher outputs ...

Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: diz on January 10, 2013, 12:42:18 AM
Yeah, but variable voltage passthroughs are a thing.

I remember one that looked like a soldering iron and came with a wierd plexiglass hoop-stand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5-tARgXwsA#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5-tARgXwsA#ws)

There are also smaller USB-type VV ones like this one:

http://www.vaporkings.com/Variable-voltage-510-eGo-USB-passthrough-p/ego-passthrough.htm (http://www.vaporkings.com/Variable-voltage-510-eGo-USB-passthrough-p/ego-passthrough.htm)

But they also have the same caveats that I made earlier about power consumption in the product description.
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: lordjasper1988 on January 10, 2013, 12:49:32 AM
so I've got one guy saying DON'T DO IT. and another saying it's possible... the only reason I'm askin if it's possible is because I don't really want to vape at a constant 5v if I have to I will though.

also thanks guys for your input :)
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: itsmeitis on January 10, 2013, 12:50:22 AM
in all honesty, i'd advise you to take direction from Diz as his knowledge unto electricals is far superior to not only mine, but potentially the majority of ECRs members ...

@ Diz, i do actually own Passthroughs, VV Passthroughs and as well VV Charge & Vape ... i was only attempting to keep things simple by my earlier reply ... i do though have absolute faith in you best conveying detail or direction in accordance with the OPs query.
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: diz on January 10, 2013, 01:15:04 AM
so I've got one guy saying DON'T DO IT. and another saying it's possible... the only reason I'm askin if it's possible is because I don't really want to vape at a constant 5v if I have to I will though.

also thanks guys for your input :)

@Itsmeitis - Sorry for taking you too literally! I guess simpler is better in this case. My apologies!

Nonetheless:

@lordjasper1988
I don't know what's so great about the Gripper's internals. I have one and even before the switch broke, the case fell apart and the 510 connector wobbled off, the power regulation is shockingly inaccurate. It uses "average" voltage readings rather than "RMS" values for it's pulsed voltage, so when set to 3v - it actually produces the equivalent of around 4.3v RMS (equivalent to the power produced from a battery). It really only provides a range between 4.3 and 6v, rather than the displayed 3 - 6v range. It proved rather useless for me and my low resistance atomisers that require less than 4V.

Those misgivings aside, I wonder why you asked for USB compatibility when you really want to plug it into a wall plug.

On reading the instruction manual that came with my VV Gripper, it does state that there is a 5V input limit on the Gripper, so you may be fine with a powerful USB adapter. Many USB supplies do kick out a bit more than 5V though so it is cutting things fine and you may fry your Gripper internals. They don't look particularly robust. It may be a better idea though to use a lower voltage adapter (like a 4V wall wart supply), or use a higher voltage supply adapter and feed it through a rectifier circuit (DC - DC converter) to bring the voltage into a range that the Gripper can handle.

By the way, I've just yesterday ordered an Evolv DNA-20D for some mod I'll be tinkering about with:

http://evolvapor.com/our-products/#DNA20 (http://evolvapor.com/our-products/#DNA20)

I hope it's more accurate than the Gripper!
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: lordjasper1988 on January 10, 2013, 01:35:25 AM
hey diz the only reason i asked is because i dont want to constantly vape at 5v but looking at what youve both siad im gunna go straight for a 5v passthrough.

and besides i love tinkering so i just tought id ask.

im sorry if you guys thought i was being a total ass but im a newb at this and was curious.
catch you all in the forum.
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: diz on January 10, 2013, 01:59:23 AM
These are only my opinions and the VV Gripper can work well with the more "standard" resistance cartomizers at higher resistances.

The "RMS" issue decreases as the voltage increases, so the Gripper gets more accurate as the set voltage increases: So 6V on a Gripper really is 6V. (This is due to the nature of the Gripper's pulsed voltage supply - As the set voltage increases, so the gaps between the pulses decrease until they disappear altogether at 6V).

It is something they've fixed on the newer mods like the VAMO and ZMax V2 (that still have a pointless option for RMS or Average voltage display) but the RMS issue did exist on the older VMax and Zmax series 1 mods. Many people are quite happy with these "Average" pulsed voltage devices.

If you can get a regulated 5V USB power supply that pumps out a few amps, why not give it a try in powering your Gripper? What's there to loose? The idea of varying the voltage, even if it's not truly accurate, is still somewhat better than restricting yourself to the higher resistance carto's only that would work with a direct 5V supply. Having something adjustable is neat and allows for the fine-tuning of your vape.

You're no ass. I hope the discussion was helpful. Apologies for any confusion.
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: itsmeitis on January 10, 2013, 02:23:36 AM
im sorry if you guys thought i was being a total ass but im a newb at this and was curious.

not at all bud ... no-one thought anything of the sort ... both Diz and myself understand your curiosity and so we are happy to offer as much help as we could or can ... unfortunately my knowledge is less than enough to help you complete your query, though i recognise with Diz on hand too and with his additional knowledge and expertise in electronics, you may get much closer toward achieving your objective.
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: another_yank on January 29, 2013, 08:19:40 PM
It will work.  I just saw a release from ProVape that they're going to be offering a pass-through cap and insert for the Provari and Provari Mini.  It's basically a modified end cap with a RCA connection and fastened to it is a cylindrical housing containing a DC-DC power management board with a cap which makes contact with the positive (+) battery connection inside the Provari's battery tube.  The unit takes the place of the battery and connects directly to an AC-DC converter or 12V DC plug.  I have a VAMO myself and have been thinking this would be a great idea.  In fact, with a relatively short material list and an IC such as this one (for USB connection)  http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LMZ10505EXTTZ%2FNOPB/LMZ10505EXTTZ%2FNOPBCT-ND/2399091 (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LMZ10505EXTTZ%2FNOPB/LMZ10505EXTTZ%2FNOPBCT-ND/2399091) the ProVape design could be duplicated to run in a device such as the VAMO, or even the Gripper with maybe a slightly different rating on the chip.

Here's the Provari passthrough release: http://tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ProVape-Introducing-Pass-Thru.pdf (http://tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ProVape-Introducing-Pass-Thru.pdf)

Very cool indeed.   8)
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: itsmeitis on January 29, 2013, 08:37:42 PM
here too, a much earlier solution ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV8p6VDLO9Q# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV8p6VDLO9Q#)
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: itsmeitis on January 29, 2013, 08:40:28 PM
there is also another option for making any fixed voltage device variable voltage, simply by hooking up to a variable voltage power supply ...
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: another_yank on January 29, 2013, 08:57:46 PM
there is also another option for making any fixed voltage device variable voltage, simply by hooking up to a variable voltage power supply ...

I don't believe so, unless the "fixed" voltage device is unregulated (like the GG).  For the variable voltage supply to be able to reach the atty the only thing between the supply and the 510/whatever connection has to be simply wiring.  And you would have to sodler/somehow connect a potentiometer to the VV supply to adjust it. (unless it has a chip with screwdriver adjustment like on the Kick.)  I'm gonna really dive into this topic and will post whatever I can find on this thread.
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: itsmeitis on January 29, 2013, 08:58:41 PM
 ??? i would have though most if not all mechanical mods would work exactly as the GG
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: another_yank on February 02, 2013, 06:52:54 PM
??? i would have though most if not all mechanical mods would work exactly as the GG

yeah, makes sense.  I've been thinking about it from the point of view of a VV/VW device.  Speaking of which, I just checked my tracking info and my spare VAMO end cap is in the mail truck, en route to my house now.  I am gonna use it to make a pass through adapter for my VAMO and will keep updating along the way.  I want it to output 7-8 V with an current limit of no less than 5 A, since the VAMO only performs accurately across all voltage/wattage settings when in dual 18350 mode (6.4-8.4 V input); when having to boost the single battery config its voltage/power curve tends to drop off toward the higher settings.  I would like this pass through to offer full performance since I am thinking of marketing it once the prototype it up and running!  I'll post updates of my endeavor as they develop.
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: itsmeitis on February 02, 2013, 07:15:10 PM
i'm not sure there's much the market left for the higher voltages of times gone by ...
Title: Re: heres one for ya... will it work???
Post by: another_yank on February 02, 2013, 07:42:47 PM
 :( Yer right...  The more I look around the more I'm thinking I'll end up with a single Li-ion output range on the adapter (3.7-4.2 V).  There's an appealing solution available (with plenty of documentation in the vaping world) to buck 12 V down to ~4 V with enough current (up to 6 A) - http://www.murata-ps.com/data/power/okr-t6-w12.pdf (http://www.murata-ps.com/data/power/okr-t6-w12.pdf)

I don't reach above 10 W/4.5 V anyway, and there's no noticeable output difference at that range between the single and double battery setup.  I can't wait until my VAMO "grows a tail" too.