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Author Topic: Tax  (Read 2107 times)

itsmeitis

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Tax
« on: January 27, 2014, 11:25:31 AM »

this newsreel explains the tax which Italy apply to e-cigs.




on the face of it, tax does seem unfair as it penalises users for their take-up of a safer alternative to traditional cigarettes.

but, a simple breakdown of the maths might just help absorb the potential realities of what tax could infact entail.


taking example from a prominent vendor whom well established both online and in bricks and mortar, insist on supply of only 10ml bottle sizes. a bottle of e-liquid in their 10ml size does cost £3.99
that figure is likely to be inclusive of VAT and representative of a relatively happy medium in e-liquid pricing from one so called respectable community friendly supplier.

turning to a none community embraced supplier and we'll find 10ml bottle of similar e-liquid, costing a mere £1.99 per bottle. these available off the shelf and available on high streets across the UK.
ingredients are included and produced with good marketing practice to boot. the total price too, is likely to be subject to included VAT.

taking that £1.99 high street example into consideration and inflicting an 80.5% tax upon it, it would reach a total price of £3.59
so in effect, the none community friendly bottle of 10ml e-liquid with addition of hefty tax, would still arrive to the customer at lower price than the so called friendly supplier charges currently.

certainly raises food for thought and we will undoubtedly reject any call for taxation upon our e-liquids, even while we hypothetically could be paying much less for our product and shoring up government coffers which do ultimately pay for services which our so called friendly vendor might prefer to keep to share among themselves.





« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 11:27:07 AM by itsmeitis »
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justin case

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Re: Tax
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 12:46:56 PM »

it's an 80.5% tax ged, don't matter who you buy from, you are getting hammered by a currently unjustified boot in the balls.....excessive taxation has always had to be justified by health costs as in smoking or drinking, but this is a blatant tax because of tax loss on cigarettes.
no doubt they will do the same if electric cars become the norm and petrol revenue goes down the crapper.
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itsmeitis

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Re: Tax
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 01:35:49 PM »

Yep - 80.5% is a shear p!sstake, but worse is the current price set by the equivalent but supposed altogether friendlier supplier.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in support of tax in this regard, but I am seeing figures which cannot be denied as startling. If those figures are obvious to me, then I'm sure they are equally apparent to the treasury who must surely be witnessing a decline in revenue from the increase in ex-smoking.

The shear scope for manoeuvre isn't one which I created, that would be the so misconceived friendly seller whom vend their lucrative gear among us.

i'm not adverse to business amassing profit, but some soon lose sight of their humble beginnings and quickly believe themselves holier than thou. the fact that they tend to move among us as friends, serves no favour to vapers. ongoing practices which will very likely promote intervention such as taxation - ironically they will be the very same ones leading calls to reject intervention that their very actions invite.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 01:57:25 PM by itsmeitis »
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Jordan

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Re: Tax
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 02:07:47 PM »

Just a little figure to back up the point you are making ged. A bottle of hangsen, direct from the supplier including shipping, customs and vat works out at between 60-70p per bottle depending on order quantity, now look at vendors selling that bottle on for £3.99, even £4.99 in some places. The profit margin is HUGE. Now you take the cost of that bottle, add 100% e cig tax to hmrc, 100% mark up for profit to the vendor and the cost of the bottle is still only £1.80-£2.10 depending on how many you ordered. The thing with e liquid is that as consumers we are prepared to pay £4+ for 10 ml so the liquid vendors are more than happy to oblige. Obviously overheads and other things need to be taken into account but is it just me that thinks it odd that the item you repeat buy the most in the e cig world is also the one the vendors are making the most profit on? They can afford to lower their prices by a considerable amount and if we go down the same route as italy I would bet money on the prices of liquid staying very close to what they are now and the vendor just taking a hit on the profit margin due to the fact there will always be someone prepared to sell reasonable quality goods at the cheapest price they can without losing money on it.
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Fergus Mason

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Re: Tax
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 10:58:13 PM »

That just moves an unjustified tax on to the vendors, and I don't see why they should be robbed in this manner any more than we should. There is no justification for a tax on e-liquid.
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itsmeitis

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Re: Tax
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2014, 11:02:38 PM »

That just moves an unjustified tax on to the vendors, and I don't see why they should be robbed in this manner any more than we should. There is no justification for a tax on e-liquid.

precisely - hence why the figures make for interesting reading which obviously caught your attention. as i said the treasury would almost certainly see this in similar terms.
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Grove

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Re: Tax
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 12:09:37 AM »

maybe it just taxes it out of the market completely and then people take up smoking normal cigs again which is what they want.
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itsmeitis

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Re: Tax
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 12:20:15 AM »

maybe it just taxes it out of the market completely and then people take up smoking normal cigs again which is what they want.

if that were so, the Italians might hardly have invited the recent 500 million Euros in development to produce products of similar nature to e-cigs, but using principles rumoured to be similar to those used in the iolites.
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